Most people view Canada as a hockey hotbed. The NHL is king and the Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens battle for the attention of the nation, and there may be some other teams that play also. Truth be told, if there is one professional team that is capturing the attention of the entire nation, it is the Toronto Blue Jays. With the exit of the Montreal Expos to Washington now over a decade old, the country is increasingly embracing the Blue Jays as Canada’s team.
The second Major League Baseball team to call the True North home, it seems that everyone in town was at that very first game in 1977 at snow-covered Exhibition Stadium. After moving away from the horrendous stadium on the lake, the Jays moved into what was known as the 8th Wonder of the World, SkyDome. An equal number of people around Toronto also claim to have been there to see Joe Carter hit his epic home run to win the 1993 World Series.
SkyDome was not trend-setting as much as it was pioneering. Oriole Park deviated from the multi-purpose design and ushered in a new era of retro style ballparks. SkyDome had numerous aspects that have been taken as part of new stadiums all over North America. From restaurants to the prominence of luxury boxes; from massive video boards to retractable roofs; all of these amenities gained prominence with the 1989 opening of SkyDome.
In 2000, Rogers Communications purchased the Blue Jays from Interbrew and the SkyDome from Sportco in 2004. With that came the renaming of the stadium to Rogers Centre. Another new era for the Rogers Centre is right around the corner. With the recent sale of the CFL’s Toronto Argonauts and pending move to BMO Field for the 2016 season, the Rogers Centre is free and clear to focus on baseball. It had already been announced that the 2018 season will see natural grass in the Rogers Centre, a major investment. Also, there are rumours that for the 2016 season the Rogers Centre will feature a more traditional dirt infield.
The Blue Jays currently hold the longest current playoff drought, which is at 21 years at the beginning of the 2015 season. However, hope for the future remains, both for the product on the field and the stadium that Canada’s team calls home.
The FANFARE scale is our metric device for rating each stadium experience. It covers the following:
Each area is rated from 0 to 5 stars with 5 being the best. The overall composite score is the "FANFARE Score".
The quality and variety of food at the Rogers Centre is as good as any experience in MLB.
There are numerous permanent concession stands around the Rogers Centre as well as a number of temporary stands. As with most stadiums, the best food options at the Rogers Centre can be found on the first floor concourse. You can find unique items at most concession stands. Toronto Street Eats features Corn Dogs, Beef Brisket Poutine, Fish and Chips and Frites. Olde Spadina Ave has a variety of kosher options including hot dogs. Premium foot long hot dogs are found at Garrison Creek Flat Grill. Hogtown Grill has Chicken Tenders, burgers, sausage and sweet potato fries. T.O. Sandwich Co has a variety of deli sandwiches including reubens and corned beef. Jerk Chicken Nachos can be found at Queen St and the Muddy York Market features Adobo Chicken and Meatball hoagies. Pizza Nova has a few stands and offers a variety of pizza.
The draught beer that is found throughout Rogers Centre is Budweiser and Bud Light. There are a variety of tall boys that are found throughout the stadium including Alexander Keith's IPA, Stella Artois, Rolling Rock, Sapporo, a variety of Lowenbrau brands, Corona and Sleeman's. There are also a variety of Bacardi coolers and mixed drinks that are available at mobile stands. For something that is more summer focused you may want to visit the Bud Lime-Rita stand. At the permanent concession stands you will find Coca-Cola products served in fountain cups. At the mobile stands, plastic Coke bottles can be found.
Although the quality of the concessions is strong across the board, you may want to try some of the more unique items. Try either the beef brisket poutine or the jerk chicken nachos and you will most definitely not be disappointed.
The atmosphere at Rogers Centre is not as bad as it is reported. It is a pretty good experience, although it could, and will, be better.
Rogers and the Blue Jays have consistently continued to improve the Rogers Centre after over a decade of little to no changes. The exterior of the stadium is not overly appealing. The Jays do a good job of posting current banners of players to give the exterior, which has way too much exposed concrete, some colour. On the north side of the stadium there are two bronze sculptures embedded in the facade of the stadium. These have been at SkyDome since 1989 and are labeled "The Audience." The south side of the stadium features a bronze statue of Rogers founder Ted Rogers, who brought the Jays back from a dark time in their history. There is no true, clear entrance, which is due to the circular nature of the stadium. The Renaissance Hotel is at the north end, between the two sculptures, remains a unique feature among stadia. Inside, the lower concourse is open and the field can be seen pretty much 360 degrees around. Make sure you head to section 134 to catch some of the Blue Jays Central on Rogers Sportsnet. It is shown live and features Jamie Campbell and baseball's answer to Don Cherry, Gregg Zaun.
Upon entry to the seating area, you will immediately notice the three story video board which is imbedded into the hotel. There are a number of suites in the Renaissance that look out on to the field, and there are a number of stories that go along with these hotel rooms. Above what is still commonly referred to as the Jumbotron, banners hang for the 1985, 1989 and 1991 American League East pennants and the 1992 and 1993 World Series. A banner also hangs for the 1991 All-Star Game and two banners hang for people who have entered the Hall of Fame with significant contributions as Blue Jays. Pat Gillick was the General Manager for the Jays from the beginning through the glory years and Roberto Alomar is the only player to enter the Hall of Fame as a Blue Jay. His number 12 is the only number retired by the team. On the fifth deck facade the Jays show off their Level of Excellence, honouring great Blue Jays including Gilick, Alomar, Carlos Delgado, Dave Steib, Tony Fernandez, George Bell, Joe Carter, Cito Gaston, president Paul Beeston and broadcaster Tom Cheek.
Beneath the Jumbotron is Sightlines Market and Bar, a sit down premium experience restaurant. On the opposite side of the field is the club section, TD Comfort Clubhouse and the 12 Bar. Beneath Sightlines is the WestJet Flight Deck, an open air, general admission bar area. All are great alternates to sit or stand and catch the game as opposed to the traditional seat. Most seats in the stadium lack cup holders and are on the skinny side, but do have good sightlines. Rogers Centre is also one of the last stadiums in the league that has AstroTurf, which for better or worse, will be changed in the not too distant future.
In-game promotions are what you would expect in a Major League Baseball game. The walkup music is typical and chosen by the specific players. The mascot, Ace, does his thing to keep the kids interested and the cheer/promo team, J Force, is all over the place doing those promotional things. The in-game highlight has to be the seventh inning stretch when fans can participate in the Jays own anthem, OK Blue Jays, which has been around since the early eighties. Take Me Out to the Ballgame follows OK Blue Jays, and really pales in comparison.
Most all of the seats provide good sightlines. The fifth deck has a very steep slope as opposed to the fairly gentle slope of the field level seats. If you are looking for a value seat, then try the first three rows in the fifth deck behind the plate. The fifth deck offers the cheapest seats in the stadium, and the view is great.
As some fans and media clamour for a new baseball stadium, the fact remains that Rogers Centre is not going anywhere. The reason is simple. There is not a better location in the city for the Blue Jays to be.
Downtown Toronto is a fantastic spot to make an afternoon, a weekend or an entire vacation. There are a huge number of locations where one can eat before or after the game. If you are looking for a true culinary experience, then you may want to make your way up to the top of the CN Tower to the 360 Restaurant. If you are looking for a more traditional pregame experience then try The Loose Moose, Fionn MacCool's, Horizons, or The Over Draught Irish Pub. Front Street and Bremner Blvd have a plethora of dining options. If you want to head down to 99 Blue Jays Way, then you will find Wayne Gretzky's, which is one of the best spots to hit. Great food and a ton of hockey memorabilia from the Great One are right there.
You can make an entire vacation in downtown Toronto. The CN Tower and Ripley's Aquarium of Canada are right there by the Rogers Centre. The Rogers Centre does offer tours, however they are not nearly as good as they should be. The Theatre District may be second only to Broadway in New York City as far a stage entertainment is concerned. The Eaton Centre is a fantastic place to shop. Right across the road from the Rogers Centre is Toronto Railway Museum. You may also want to take the Steam Whistle Brewery Tour, which is also across the road. However, no trip to Toronto is complete without a trip to see the Hockey Hall of Fame. If you are looking for other sports, Toronto FC, Toronto Argonauts, Toronto Raptors, Toronto Rock and Toronto Maple Leafs all play within minutes of the Rogers Centre. A truly unique experience may be to check out Ryerson Rams university sports at the former Maple Leaf Gardens.
Of course there are a ton of places that you could stay in downtown Toronto. A unique experience would be to stay right in the stadium at the Renaissance. Another unique experience would be to stay at one of the most significant historical hotels in all of Canada, the Royal York. A little more affordable would be the Delta and Strathcona, however you are going to pay to stay downtown no matter what you choose.
The Rogers Centre features run of the mill, Southern Ontario fans.
The Blue Jays have had their ups and downs attracting patrons to see the team. At one point, the Jays were the toast of the town and attracted more than 3 million fans per year. Those days are gone. The Jays have averaged between 25,000 and 31,000 fans per game since the 2012 season. They have topped out at the middle of the pack in the MLB. Due to the really high capacity of Rogers Centre, the Jays also feature one of the lowest capacity percentages in the entire league.
The fans that are in attendance are typical of the area and fairly quiet. A game against the Red Sox or Yankees on a weekend will bring out a large number of fans from the visiting team. If you are looking for the best possible fan experience for the Jays, then you would want to be at a special game such as opening day or Canada Day. There will be over 40,000 fans in attendance and is a much different atmosphere overall.
The Rogers Centre can be challenging to get to as downtown Toronto traffic can be difficult.
Rogers Centre is located right by the Lakeshore in downtown Toronto. Driving to the stadium will be difficult as motorists must take either the Gardiner Expressway or Lakeshore Blvd. Hitting the road earlier as opposed to later is always the best idea.
The bad traffic downtown is mitigated by the fantastic public transit options. Rogers Centre is just a couple of blocks from Union Station. The TTC subway, GO Transit and Via Rail are all major presence in Union Station. Along Spadina you will find the TTC street car. Any public transit info can be found at www.ttc.ca and www.gotransit.ca.
Decent parking can be found downtown, however depending on the day it can greatly fluctuate. Most days you can find parking within walking distance of the Rogers Centre for around $10. On one of those special days, the same parking space can go for $40.
The ticketing windows are outside Gate 9 along Bremner Blvd. There are a huge number of windows, but the sidewalks are not massive and can get crowded very quickly. Having tickets in hand may be a better bet and entering a gate like 14 will probably be easier.
The concourses in Rogers Centre are pretty wide and getting around is not too difficult. The stadium would have benefited from escalators. The majority of fans will travel up and down with long trips around traditional stadium ramps. The washroom facilities are plentiful and on most days more than adequate.
A trip to see the Blue Jays is a pretty run of the mill investment. It tends to lean towards the expensive side.
Although the average ticket price for the Jays is just over $25, which is below the MLB average of just under $29, there is a real discrepancy for ticket prices. All of the tickets in the 500 level are a very reasonable $16 for most games. However all of the tickets that are in the first level sides are almost $60. Right behind the plate, for "in action" seats a patron will pay $275 and the club seats in the second deck are $80. All other seats range from $75 to $16. Concession prices are on the higher side and parking can have a very wide range. If you put it all together, the investment is probably going to be on the more significant side. That being said, the return is solid and you should have a good time at a Jays game. Make sure you do your homework to keep the costs down.
An extra mark for the scrolling season ticket list on the 100 level. A nice touch for those supporters that are true blue.
An extra mark for a little celebrity love. On many nights right behind home plate you will find Geddy Lee, the lead singer of Rush.
An extra mark for the return of the ORIGINAL OK Blue Jays. The early 2000s saw the Jays' anthem "modernized" with a horrible backbeat. There is no doubt the original is better.
An extra mark for the importance of the Rogers Centre in the stadium arms race which MLB experienced in the '90s and '00s.
There is a lot to look forward to with the Toronto Blue Jays in the future. The product on the field has the fans thinking the playoff drought may be ending soon. The installation of natural grass in the future also has fans looking forward to the future of the Rogers Centre. During all of this time, the Jays have cemented their spot as Canada's Team in the MLB and continue to be something that Canadians can all call their own.
In 1989, Toronto opened the SkyDome. It was state of the art in every sense of the word and was casually referred to as the next wonder of the world (right after Andre the Giant). It helped put Toronto in the centre of the sporting universe and made the Blue Jays the envy of the league. The SkyDome put the Jays at the top of the attendance heap in Major League Baseball and gave the team the needed revenue to help them build World Series Championship teams in 1992 and 1993. SkyDome has also hosted some significant events, including major concerts, two WrestleManias, Grey Cups, NCAA Bowl Games and public showings of the final episodes of Cheers and Star Trek: The Next Generation, and recently the biggest UFC event in history.
The city of Toronto eventually sold the SkyDome to media giant Rogers Communications and it was immediately renamed. Rogers also purchased the Blue Jays, who had fallen on hard times. Original owner, Labatt's brewery had been purchased by Belgian beer conglomerate Interbrew and the exodus of key executives, including Paul Beeston and Pat Gillick, began. Interbrew was not interested in running a professional sports franchise, and began cutting costs.
Much has changed in the twenty plus year lifespan of what is now known as the Rogers Centre and there are rumblings from local fans that maybe it's time for something new. What remains certain is that this wonder is at the very least a revolutionary stadium that led to many of the amenities and features that are now commonplace among newer stadiums. There's a funny thing that's happening in the MLB. The quest to create new and original stadiums has left the league with numerous stadiums that are very similar. This has left the Rogers Centre as a rather unique alternative.
Back in 1989, the Rogers Centre (previously the Skydome) emerged as a modern marvel of architecture. Thanks to its retractable roof, after 20 years it still stands as one of the most unique ballparks in the majors.
I remember my first visit to Skydome back in 1990. My Tigers were in town, and the place was electric. The Jays were on their rise to prominence, and the dome was seeing the highest attendance is the Majors.
Flash forward to today, or my most recent trip which was two years ago, and it just doesn't have the same pizzaz. For one thing, I don't know that the upkeep has been appropriate. There is lettering along the facades that have fallen down, and the place in general feels older than its 20 years.
The lack of enthusiasm from the fans certainly contributes, as does the personality free turf. While I like Major League Baseball in Canada (and I love Toronto), I wonder sometimes if there is a city that would be more in love with baseball than folks in Toronto seem to be.
Losing builds that apathy. Maybe that's all the venue needs- a little attention and a little winning.
Such a great city to visit, but the Skydome just leave so much to be desired. That turf just looks awful.
Once a revolutionary development with the retractable roof, the Skydome has suffered over the years, falling behind other new stadiums much as the team has fallen behind their competitors. Prices are high, especially for food and drinks. Fans are too spread out and are obnoxious without being funny.
I'll always have a soft spot for the place where the Jays 93 team won the World Series, but think the team needs to be more creative to get fans into the stadium and into the game.
I took in a game on 9/13/12 vs. the Seattle Mariners. This was the first MLB game I've been to in at least 15 years (Baltimore Orioles). It was also only my second time to Canada (I came up from Buffalo just for the game).
Food & Beverage:
Selection seemed very good...and yes, there was poutine :). Just a tad expensive. The $8.50 Commemorative Coke Zero was still refreshing though.
Atmosphere/Fans: Awesome! The stadium is a marvel, although it took me a second to adjust to the look of AstroTurf. Watching the game was definitely the #1 priority of most people attending!
There was excitement in the air, despite what looked to be pretty poor attendance. To be fair, it was the last game in the series, it was a weeknight, and the Red Sox were rolling into town the next night. Canadians are wonderful, polite, and love their Blue Jays! Now I do too!
Neighborhood/Access: Rogers Centre is located in a pretty swanky downtown area. Parking was pretty expensive, but there were plenty of garages to accommodate.
If you're going to a 7pm game on a weeknight, I would recommend planning ahead, as you will most likely get stuck in some traffic. Another thing to note is that parking prices takes a dive in many garages at 6pm. If I had parked at 5:45, this particular garage would have cost me $21. Since I waited, it only cost me $9. I parked a ways away from the stadium though.
Return on Investment: I think the ticket prices for some of the 100 and 200 level seats are a little high based on the demand. It seemed like you could get a really good deal on anything in the 500 level. Why the 500 level patrons didn't all sneak down to better seats is beyond me... All that said, I would totally go again...but I would go much more frequently if the prices dropped a bit.
Extras: Caught a foul ball! Doesn't get any better than that! Ace (the mascot) came around a bunch and was happy to take photos. We were also treated to a rendition of both the Star Spangled Banner and O Canada!
Conclusion: Loved it. I would definitely go again. If you want to see some no-nonsense baseball, this is the place.
I've been to the Skydome for 3 games now and I really enjoy being there. It looks like a dank basement on TV but it's actually very open and clean in person. The area around is exactly what you'd expect from the downtown of a major North American city; fountains, lakeshore, skyscrapers. Toronto is like a clean Chicago. I've seen two games with the dome open and the CN Tower looming over the field adds to the scope of the Skydome as a multipurpose facility. The hotel in centerfield is also a classy touch. The street musicians playing bucket drums on the way in and out of the stadium was very fun. Overall, it was much better than I expected.
I really enjoyed the stadium. I imagined it to be bigger than it really is, but it's plenty spacious. The food selection on the first level was very nice, but its quite thin as you go up the levels. The fans arrived in force the day I was there in anticipation for the 2013 season. It was great to see a packed house, even in a loss. The seats were adequate up in the 500 level - what I expected from a 20+ year old stadium. The surrounding area is nice with a brewery, some good restaurants, and the CN Tower directly next door.
Rogers Centre has been called everything from "wonder of the world" to "concrete toilet bowl," not to mention SkyDome. Jays fans sometimes tend to complain about the sheer size and symmetrical blandness of the stadium but when the park opened in 1989 it was seen as one of the greatest venues in all of sport. Combined with back-to-back Blue Jays' World Series victories in 1992 and 1993, and a 1991 Argonauts Grey Cup win, the stadium was positively hopping.
Rogers Centre's history can be traced back to the 1982 CFL Grey Cup. Held outdoors at Exhibition Stadium, the game was marred by November's freezing rain and wind. The next day, people began calling for a domed stadium. In June of 1983 then-Ontario Premier Bill Davis announced that a domed stadium would be considered for Toronto.
Canadian 'starchitect' Rod Robbie drew up plans for the new stadium and won an international design competition. The site chosen was next to the CN Tower, and right in the heart of an upcoming neighbourhood built on a former rail yard. The stadium was to be the most expensive ever built in baseball and it would feature dozens of futuristic amenities including an enormous Jumbotron screen, a hotel towering over the outfield, and the 31-story retractable dome. Under the still-new CN Tower, the dome was to become the envy of the sporting world. Construction lasted three years and the opening of the stadium was met with great fanfare.
The lavish grand opening ceremony of Skydome began with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra playing an original composition, then an entrance ceremony for the construction crews reminiscent of the Olympic opening ceremonies. After this, a troupe from the popular musical Cats sang about the old Exhibition Stadium followed by big football players from the Argos who performed a lighthearted musical number of their own to the tune of 'Singing in the Rain.' Videos now on YouTube reveal that it wasn't half bad! Following this performance was the "We are Toronto' act, which showcased the city's multiculturalism. Finally, the climax was reached and the dome was ceremoniously opened for the first time. People applauded despite being exposed to a torrential downpour outside. Skydivers dropped in through the thick cloud and a final musical piece concluded the ceremonies.
The pomp and circumstance eventually wore off. In 2005, oft derided telecom giant Rogers angered fans when they purchased the SkyDome and renamed it to the corporate Rogers Centre. Many fans still purposely still refer to the stadium as SkyDome. The building also started to show its age. In an era of retro-inspired ballparks, the once futuristic Rogers Centre had become ironically outdated. The team did not play well on the field and fan apathy grew. Attendance fell and the future of the stadium looked quite bleak.
Then in late 2012, the Blue Jays made a series of trades and free agent signings that were punctuated by the Toronto Argonauts winning the 100th Grey Cup at home. Stadium owner Rogers announced a long-term plan to renovate the Rogers Centre and improve the fan experience. For the 2013 season, an open porch was added to center field, and more interesting food and drink options were added. Over the coming seasons, renovations will continue until a grass field is eventually installed. At the same time the Argonauts are expected to move into a new football-exclusive outdoor stadium elsewhere in the city.
The buzz surrounding the Jays has reached a fever pitch across Canada and the Rogers Centre, or SkyDome if you like, has become the place to be once again.
I recently had a weekend trip to Toronto with my wife and son, and we thoroughly enjoyed our trip to Rogers Centre, although I wish the fans around us would have drank less, and found more creative vocabulary than dropping the f-bomb every fifth word near my 5 year-old son. That said, Toronto is a wonderful (although expensive) city to visit.
The stadium food is good, and the hot dogs were above average in quality. Beer cost $11, which is outrageous. Overall, the quality is good, but the price is tough to swallow.
The neighborhood is in a great location, within an easy walk from public transportation. We stopped in to the Loose Moose, and I highly recommend eating there before or after the game, rather than shelling out at Rogers Centre. Stops at the Hockey Hall of Fame and the Royal Ontario Museum are both recommended as well. We stayed at the Holiday Inn Express on Lombard, near the famous St Lawrence Market, and the location was walkable to the stadium, at a reasonable price.
Overall, it's expensive, but Rogers Centre does have some new life, even if the team as not lived up to expectations in 2013.
I enjoyed visiting this ballpark with my family. Rogers Centre is located in the heart of Toronto with easy access to nearby attractions and restaurants.
Every year me and a few of my buddies purchase a 15 game flex pack to see the Blue Jays. Every time we go down to the Rogers Centre I feel like us Blue Jays fans have been cheated. The Rogers Centre has to be one of the worst baseball stadiums in the whole league. From the over priced, bland hot dogs (your best bet would to get one outside the gates) to the disgusting washrooms that lack hot water, Toronto baseball fans deserve better. With that being said when the Rogers Centre is rocking with a crowd of 45,000+ people it is simply awesome. The stadium is easy to access and it is right in the heart of downtown Toronto which can make for a cool day for a tourist. In conclusion the Rogers Centre may not be a world class facility in my mind but if you get the chance to catch a marquee game (Home Opener, Canada Day, Yankees games, etc.) it can make for an awesome experience.
Twenty-five years ago the stadium revolution, which led to the stadium arms race, began in Toronto, Ontario. Although many today would consider the Rogers Centre, formerly SkyDome, a cookie-cutter stadium. The truth is that the Rogers Centre is anything but a cookie-cutter. If your definition of cookie-cutter is solely based on the round shape of the stadium, then your definition is too shallow. Stadia that were considered cookie-cutters were nearly exact replicas of each other, whether Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia or St. Louis. SkyDome actually broke the mold in 1989.
The opening of SkyDome showed all of Major League Baseball what was possible in a stadium. What eventually became the Rogers Centre brought a whole new focus on the fan experience. Luxury boxes became a league-wide catch-phrase. Having a giant video board became a must after the original Jumbotron. In stadium restaurants became common. A retractable roof became a reality. All of these innovations seemed to be pioneered in Toronto.
The Blue Jays and Rogers Centre are owned by Canadian media giant Rogers Communications. After the 2013 blockbuster deal with the Miami Marlins, and subsequent return to the "blue" period in the Jays unis, expectations were high for the team, including some picking the Jays to win the 2013 World Series. After a colossal failure of a 2013 season, the Blue Jays are flying under the radar. A terrific start to the 2014 season has Jays fans hoping this is the breakout year. Attendance is up and hopes are high. There may be a Blue Horizon in Toronto in 2014.
Very thin crowd due to a weeknight after the team had fallen out of contention. I like the setting with CN Tower when the roof is open which I finally got to see after it being closed on prior trips. Great downtown location with mass transit access. Subway and train facilities seemed to be under construction but were operational. Also much street and building construction around Union Station.
Great location in downtown Toronto. You get a great view of the CN tower from inside the stadium. Especially when it's lit up at night. Good prices and the staff was very friendly and let us move all the way down to the third baseline. Atmosphere is lacking a little bit but isn't to bad. Overall a pretty nice place to see a game
The experience at its worst is unbelievably bad. I won't go to opening day anymore.
255 Bremner Boulevard
Toronto, ON M5V 3M9
146 Front Street West
Toronto, ON M5J 1G2
310 Front Street W
Toronto, ON M5V 3B6
156 Front St W
Toronto, ON M5J 2L6
301 Front St. W.
Toronto, ON M5V 2T6
30 Yonge Street
Toronto, ON M5E 1X8
301 Front Street W
Toronto, ON M5V 2T6
288 Bremner Blvd
Toronton, ON M5J 3A6
255 Bremner Blvd.
Toronto, ON M5V 3M9
One Blue Jays Way
Toronto, ON M5V 1J4
(416) 341 7100
75 Lower Simcoe St.
Toronto, ON M5J 3A6
60 York St.
Toronto, ON M5J 1S8